A "slave of Christ" . . . without fear . . . doubt . . . or disbelief . . . a free thinker . . . now that sounds like Christianity the way it should be!
Murray Smith
JoinedPosts by Murray Smith
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75
It Bears Repeating...
by AGuest in"you have to let it all go, neo: fear... doubt... and disbelief.
free... your mind.
" - morpheus.
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What Does The GB Really Believe?
by Murray Smith ina speculative question i suppose .
but i am quite intrigued by this.. .
a witness for 20-odd years .
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Murray Smith
A speculative question I suppose . . . but I am quite intrigued by this.
A Witness for 20-odd years . . . and most of that time I truly believed that these men were God's instrument for dispensing truth. Embarrasing now to admit, but I guess every ex-witness did at some time and for some time.
Having now seen the depth of the disingenuine side to the Org . . . just what do the GB really believe about themselves?
Are they so self-deluded as to still believe they are the sole possessors of Divine revelation . . . completely sold to belief in the same "concept" that ensnared us for so long and continues to hold such appeal for the unwary?
Or are they fully aware of the shortcomings of the past and have other more sinister motives?
I know you can't know for sure what's in anothers mind, their true motives etc . . . but this question bugs the hell out of me (sorry).
Perhaps those who have worked within the halls of Bethel or have had a close personal relationship with any of them could shed some light?
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Things I'm grateful for....
by Lunatic Faith ini only recently decided to change course in my life but am surprised at the daily reminders of what i have to be grateful for.
by this, i mean, things i have spent my life worrying about, or torturing myself with, that is no longer a concern:.
no more door-to-door humiliationno more guilt about not doing enoughi can get rid of most of the dresses in my wardrobe since i didn't like them anywayno more nylons rolling down my abdomen and causing my thighs to itchno more required reading and preparationno more talksno more conventions and all the headaches connected to themsummer is wide openweekly planning is no longer contingent upon meeting nightno more miserable weekends of morning service and morning meetingwhat are you grateful for?.
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Murray Smith
I have been married 30 years and have three teenage sons whose company I can now enjoy unencumbered . . . and I love them madly.
All of what has been said applies . . . What a joy it is to be free!
I am grateful most of all however, that I now have a friendship with Jesus Christ that is more meaningful than at any other time in my life. To have the time to ponder his example at length, and yet still have the freedom to lay down my own "line" and walk it with his help . . . no fear . . . no guilt . . . just his unconditional love. And all he expects from me is to give it my best shot . . . not meet some impossible standard under the critical gaze of ego-driven men
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The letter I promised earlier from the Society on Blood
by ldrnomo inthere are four different links on sendspace.com .
each link is one of the pages of the letter here are the links.
page 1 http://www.sendspace.com/file/03vk19.
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Murray Smith
Thanks a heap for the endorsement folks, although there will be many who will counter such a view no doubt.
To Listener and Nobleheart . . . thanks for the example of our Lords sacrifice. While only touched on, it is to me the most important and by far the most compelling evidence for this understanding.
He is described as having "shed his BLOOD" and "laid down his LIFE" for mankind interchangeably. Had he poured out his blood and remained alive as a human (he was a miracle worker after all), then the shed blood would have symbolised what exactly?
The response of troubled mind is heartening . . . perhaps a troubled mind is what makes us listen to our conscience . . . Ray Franz would agree I'm sure . . . never may it be underrated.
Might I encourage all who embrace a similar understanding to promote it in it's simplest form at every opportunity . . . if the basic flaw is exposed then all this ridiculous debating over the composition of blood becomes irrelevant.
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The letter I promised earlier from the Society on Blood
by ldrnomo inthere are four different links on sendspace.com .
each link is one of the pages of the letter here are the links.
page 1 http://www.sendspace.com/file/03vk19.
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Murray Smith
Hi Folks, I'm not a regular contributor but I am an avid follower of this subject, mainly because it was what precipitated my exit from this dangerous cult about 7 years ago after 24 years.
It has been my conviction for that 7 years (and some), that the WT teaching(s) on blood are fundamentally floored at the outset. I hope my grasp of the written word is enough to articulate my point, as I would love to hear the thoughts of the learned and concerned who contribute more regularly than I.
This letter from the WT makes a statement on page 1 that zeroes in on that major floor and I quote:
The only approved use of blood from an animal was on the altar under the Mosaic Law. When blood was removed from a creature, it was to be disposed of appropriately. Of course, it was the volume of blood needed to sustain life that was spilled, not requiring that every drop of blood be removed from the flesh (italics mine)
It would seem to me that the blood had sacred value because it represented a life that had been lost . . . hence the WT's statement above. Although the purpose of the WT statement is for a different application, I believe the principal is valid across the board when it comes to the moral lesson . . . RESPECT FOR LIFE.
Consider this . . . would it be appropriate for an Israelite to "milk" blood from his animals, being careful not to kill them, for the purpose of pouring it on the altar as a sacrificial offering? . . . I think not. It would hardly be regarded a "sacrifice" because the "life" it represented would still be within the healthy animal.
So logically blood" milked" from a still living and healthy animal has no spiritual significance at all . . . it does not represent "life" in any way . . . it remains as any other "tissue" or fluid expelled by a living creature. ALL of the Biblical examples I can find where blood symbolises "life" . . . it is that life has been lost . . . returned to God. Even the sacrifice of our Lord.
I hope I'm making sense here . . . perhaps some will have already anticipated the implication . . . but donated human blood equating to less than the volume of blood needed to sustain life has no symbolic relevance to life at all . . . the life the WT believes it symbolises is still in the donor whom we generally accept is still a living healthy human walking among us . . . ALIVE
The principles and laws on blood to me, are there to promote RESPECT FOR LIFE . . . not simply for blood and blood alone. Blood is merely the symbol . . . the reminder . . . and only has significance when life is lost . . . and returned to it's owner . . . God. The Hebrew Scriptures cited by the WT underscore this every time . . . and the statement in Acts 15 is merely a concession to the Jews for the sake of peace when taken in context.
Sadly, and somewhat paradoxically, the WT interpretation achieves the exact opposite . . . the unnecessary loss of life.
I have to wonder what a loving God really thinks when humans are reduced to debating blood fractions, components, membranes etc etc etc . . . things that almost require (dare I say it) a college education to understand, while the innocent perish in their thousands.
Your thoughts would be most welcome
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Some observations from the KM Elder School I wanted to share with you.
by miseryloveselders inmy school was a couple weeks back, and it was interesting to a degree.
to be honest with you, it reminded me of a police crime scene investigation with yellow tape.
what i mean is, in one respect it was business as usual.
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Murray Smith
Can't fault the GB for it's consistency . . . anyone in OUR religion is 100% accountable to US. WE are 100% accountable to NOBODY. This is the result of cultural delusion but will never change in my opinion. JW's may well shrink in numbers and breakaway sects may form as a result, but this organisation will never change in this respect. If you are not happy with them THEY WANT YOU TO GO! If you don't like it, best find yourself another religion or get used to being unhappy and unwanted.
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My first time
by not bitter ini am new to this site.
i've been out of it for about 17 years.
i've never really looked back or felt nger about any of it.
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144
Latest apostate warning in Feb 15 2011 Watchtower
by dozy inandre, who had served jehovah for years, had the bitter experience of being led astray.
by apostate thinking.
he felt that having a quick look at an apostate web site would not be dangerous.he recalls: initially, i was attracted to the so-called truths that the.
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Murray Smith
How can you unsee what you have seen?
-Sab
Couldn't agree more Sab . . . as an "apostate" friend said to me while I 'perservered' . . . "I can't unlearn what I know" . . . so I learned it too, and here I am in the disgusting mire of apostasy also. The story just can't happen and is merely further 'fairy tailing' and an insult to the intelligence. I'm a bit embarrassed for them in a way.
Ask anyone who has given an Experience from an Assembly Stage.. ...OUTLAW
Yes I have (twice), and confess to some 'license' on each occasion . . . nuggets of fact heavily shrouded in bullshit actually
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144
Latest apostate warning in Feb 15 2011 Watchtower
by dozy inandre, who had served jehovah for years, had the bitter experience of being led astray.
by apostate thinking.
he felt that having a quick look at an apostate web site would not be dangerous.he recalls: initially, i was attracted to the so-called truths that the.
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Murray Smith
How can you unsee what you have seen?
-Sab
Couldn't agree more Sab . . . as an "apostate" friend said to me while I 'perservered' . . . "I can't unlearn what I know" . . . so I learned it too, and here I am in the disgusting mire of apostasy also. The story just can't happen and is merely further 'fairy tailing' and an insult to the intelligence. I'm a bit embarrassed for them in a way.
Ask anyone who has given an Experience from an Assembly Stage.. ...OUTLAW
Yes I have (twice), and confess to some 'license' on each occasion . . . a nugget of fact heavily shrouded in bullshit actually
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144
Latest apostate warning in Feb 15 2011 Watchtower
by dozy inandre, who had served jehovah for years, had the bitter experience of being led astray.
by apostate thinking.
he felt that having a quick look at an apostate web site would not be dangerous.he recalls: initially, i was attracted to the so-called truths that the.
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Murray Smith
Andre's experience proves that "apostates" are no match for the sound scriptural guidance provided by the slave. I too have looked at many apostate sites but my faith has only grown in strength.
So I say to all current and prospective brothers and sisters in "the truth" . . . dig into apostate information and reasoning as much as Andre and I have . . . or more! . . . we promise it can do nothing more than hasten you back to Jehovah. It is not something to fear . . . and Andre's experience proves that . . . it's simply an opportunity to strengthen your faith by exposing clever reasoning for what it is and having all your doubts removed.
And what sort of life do those horrible bitter and twisted apostates have anyway? No doubt they are consumed by doubts and fears . . . living in a world dominated by harsh rulers, hatreds, strife, jealousy, contentions, power lust, sexual deviancy, lies, deciet, family problems, even mental health issues and suicides . . . and who would want a life like that! Most of them have been witnesses for 30 40 years or more . . . which means they have simply tired out.
For a certainty, checking apostate opinion can only do good as it did for Andre . . . just watch out for those naughty scientists, boy can they decieve!